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Nyachae Speaks On His Ambition, Wealth

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Published on Saturday, 02 June 2007 03:23

Nation TV's Louis Otieno and Sophie Ikenye interviewed Ford People presidential candidate Simeon Nyachae on StateCraft programme last Thursday. Here are excerpts:

Mheshimiwa [Honourable], why do you want to be president? I want to be president for two main reasons: First, I want to offer my experience so that we can reform the country. All sectors have sunk, its management is broken and I want to make a contribution in improving the management of this nation.Second, this is a time when we are moving into a transition because the President who has been running this country for the past 24 years is retiring. You need experience in this transition and I believe I have the experience and the energy to make a contribution.

You are an architect of the current system of government and leadership. Why does it look like you are fighting it now? No. It is not a question of fighting the system. It is a question of realising that if we continue with this style of management, the country will continue suffering, the economy will collapse. We are in a state where we must all accept that whatever mistakes we have made in the past must be corrected.

At what point did you realise that? You are part of the reason why the country is where it is now. Why this sudden change of heart? Yes, it is true, I have been there as Chief Secretary. Before I retired, the economy was performing well, the Civil Service was performing well and people held positions in the central government and parastatals on merit. But when I retired, appointments were made on the basis of political expediency and that was the beginning of the deterioration. When I came back after the 1992 elections, I went to the Ministry of Agriculture. At that time, agriculture's performance had gone down to minus 2 per cent. To revive it, one had to create team spirit and boost the morale of farmers and extension officers. By the time I left after four years later, growth in agriculture had moved from minus 2 to 4.4 per cent. It is true I have been part of the system, but within that system some of us tried to do our best. When you are in a system, there is a managing director and heads of departments. If the managing director insists that he wants to do things his way, there is little a departmental head can do.

You've lost me there, you went away. At the time you left, you realised there were certain ills in the system and you gracefully came back. What was the motivation? I think you have misunderstood my message. I said very clearly that when I left, the economy was performing well. In fact when I retired in February, 1987, the economic performance of this country was 5.7 per cent. In 1987, when you retired as Chief Secretary, you were barred from contesting the 1988 elections on a Kanu ticket. Why didn't you join the Opposition? A lot of people expected me to join the Opposition. I had a lot of discussions with Opposition leaders, both Mheshimiwa Odinga's [Jaramogi] group and the late Masinde Muliro who was a close friend. Then came in the DP, then Matiba came from abroad and the Opposition started disintegrating. I paid for a full page statement in the Nation where I said I wanted to remain in Kanu. One of the reasons was to correct the mismanagement from within.

You were moved from the Finance Ministry. If you were not moved, would you have resigned? I think there has been a lot of misconception as to why I resigned. I had contemplated resigning much earlier if certain things were not agreed to. I had notified the President that unless we agreed to deal with those people who had stolen public resources, those who had taken loans from banks without security and the banks where the government had shares were going to collapse, I could not stay. So I would like to say this for the record: The President knew a week before that I had laid down my cards and he realised I was not going to compromise. I can't speak for him, but I suspect his aim was to change me so that I didn't continue putting that pressure.

You had been good friends with the President, in fact some say you were business partners. So who betrayed who? If I do business with you, it does not mean that when we are given trusteeship in public office we should carry our friendship there and compromise the responsibility given by the public. That must be separated totally. You have said your motivation was to clean up. How come when you were in the Ministry of Finance, the anti-corruption unit suffered? It is not me who made it suffer. The unit attempted to be misused and I complained. This has never been clarified although I responded over the arrest of Treasury officials. I issued a two-page statement to the [East African] Standard and the Nation but nobody came back to me. Now I might as well repeat it here. Just before the 1997 elections, a lot of sugar was imported and no duty was paid. When I went to the Ministry of Finance, we wanted to collect the money from the importers. The people who were involved in following up the matter were Mr Kinyua as Financial Secretary, Kirira was the tax man in the Treasury, Msafari was the Commissioner-General in the revenue authority and the other gentleman, Chebii, was the Commissioner for Customs. The excuse against these officials was that they had authorised wheat to come in and tax was not paid. But the truth of the matter was that that had been cleared before I became Minister for Finance, during Mudavadi's time, and had been cleared in the Cabinet when I was Minister for Water Resources. But they decided to block these chaps from following up the tax on sugar importation. I was called by the head of the Civil Service and told that they didn't want these officers and I said no. These were the right officers in the ministry. So they waited until I went home to Kisii and picked them up. They wanted to take them to court. Once they were charged, whether the case was going to take place or not, they would have been suspended and replaced. My permanent secretary rang me in Kisii and said these people had been arrested. I flew back and rang the President: Can I be told why these people have been arrested? The President wasn't aware. He rang the Commissioner of Police, he didn't know a thing. Everybody pretended not to know anything. I, therefore, said I was going to protest. I insisted that there be an inquiry on this because Kinyua's name, a man who had worked for international institutions, had been damaged. Kirira is an expert, the name had been damaged. This man who was arrested, the Commissioner-General, had just been recruited two months earlier. He had not been involved even in the wheat story. Why was he arrested? -Thank you Mheshimiwa. I believe the position is clear now. And if I was covering up corruption, they should have done one thing: Charge me for covering up because it is a crime to cover up a crime. They didn't do it and when I resigned, they were free to charge them and they haven't done that. If anything, they have promoted Kinyua - he is the permanent secretary at Treasury now.

Would you step down for another presidential candidate after Kasarani II should the need arise ? The question of stepping down is in the hands of delegates who nominated me. If it is felt that I should step down, then we have to follow the procedure which was used to nominate me. In other words, it is not for me to say I would. If that is suggested to me, I would reply: Let us convene a delegates' meeting as was held in Limuru by 1,600 people, tell them there is a proposal here for Nyachae to step down and if they approve, who am I to say No!

Do you have any intention of going to Kasarani II? I have not been invited and I don't see myself being invited. Would you feel the need to go there? I am sure you are raising this question because Mheshimiwa Raila Odinga came up with that suggestion. I believe the question Mheshimiwa Raila raised was conditional: That if people who have been in the Opposition have been invited to Kasarani, then why not also allow people like Nyachae and Kones to go there because, after all, they are only suspended Kanu members.

You have been perceived as a lone ranger. Opposition supporters have been very firm on the issue of coming together and forming a super alliance but you seem adamant. I am not adamant. In fact there is propaganda that I am a lone ranger. I have never been; I have been a team player all my life and that is why I have had the privilege to hold various positions. If you are a lone ranger, you could not be allowed to hold such positions and make a success of them. I don't think I am a lone ranger. All I have been saying is let us come together using a formula. It is not a question of Nyachae, you and him and him sitting together and saying let us agree we are going to be together. We are servants of the people. Let us look for a formula on the basis of making reference to the people. During the change over from Finance to Agriculture, around the Moi Day celebrations, we believe something was going on behind the curtain that you should tell us. What was it? If you do not tell us, we will assume you are one of the hypocrites out there to cheat people so that you can be president. We heard rumours that some money was about to be released but you refused. When I was the Minister for Agriculture? I don't think I dealt with any money, but in the Ministry of Finance I maintained financial discipline and if there was money budgeted by Parliament for a specific purpose, the Minister for Finance has no power to stop its use. The Finance Minister is expected not to allow expenditure not within the approved programme of Parliament.

Let's talk a bit about your milestones. What can Kenyans credit you for giving them in your tenure as a career civil servant? What are the best things you have done for Kenyans? I don't know whether you want me to go back to those days as provincial commissioner. I don't think I should go back there. But as Chief Secretary, I should take pride in that we had an efficient Civil Service, we had people holding positions on merit and there was productivity. That was why the economy was growing.

You tried to cut costs in government. Have these been sustained? No, they haven't. When I went in as Minister for Finance, within two months I realised that we didn't have money. In March, 1998, I called a seminar of all MPs because they are the ones who impose taxation. I said: The money you have been collecting doesn't exist. It has all been eaten. You know there was disagreement between me and the President and his team and I said: If you think I am wrong, then appoint another team. The President appointed consultants. Let me take you back a little bit. You have been a career civil servant and are one of the wealthiest people in this country.

Could you tell us how you have amassed the wealth and sustained it? Since 1954, I have maintained a very strong interest in business. I started my business with a small bakery using a drum and a distribution network of two bicycles, producing only 16 loaves of bread. I would distribute them until 8 pm or 9 pm. You would not make even Sh15 then but I concentrated. Then I bought a posho mill. My father was a coffee farmer and I took interest in farming as well. At Independence, I got a small plot in Sotik and started growing maize and keeping grade cows. When the Mzungus were leaving, I applied for a loan from the AFC [Agricultural Finance Corporation] and the Standard Bank, Nakuru. I then bought a farm and that is how I became a large-scale farmer.